Importing greyscale image to relief base thickness issue
I have created a few designs in photoshop, one is a black and white heart design with grey transition at the edges as a "roundover". I import it as a relief and it looks fantastic, exactly as I want it to be cut out with one exception.
The edge of the design has a dropoff and I do not know how to flatten it to the bottom of the material. Meaning that is where I want the edge to end, at the edge of the design, In my design this is literally a to pure black immediate transition. No matter what setting I choose no matter what I do, an "edge" with a material thickness assigned to it is there. My design is basically sitting on top of this and I do not know how to fix it.
I hope this screenshot explains it better than I can. It's sitting on a pedestal I guess.
I am so close to absolutely loving this software but I keep getting frustrated by the tiniest of things, I am sure this is something I am just missing.
Comments
If the "pedestal" is the same across the entire model simply create a vector around the whole model and then merge high the pedestal height, and then subtract the same height. This should solve your problem.
It is, which is why I am assuming I am missing something in the setup or adjustments.
When I import, I set the size and scale and the Z-range to .5
The Z-range should be zero to the height of the relief, but it is not because if I then create a tool path the and go to set the material, the material thickness is already set to .5 Therefore, the software is assigning a pedestal to my image. The image terminates at the proper edge, but the whole thing sits on top of something, when it should just edge merge into the bottom plane. I have tried changing "Add Flush" from relief zero plane, "maximum height" everything , it never changes, and is always there. I have also tried all the different paste modes.
I would rather know and understand what is causing it than create a workaround. Imported images for reliefs is part of the software package, so this must be by design.
That said, creating a vector around my design isn't so easy, it is two distorted heart shapes entwined which makes getting the curves right difficult and if it's not 100%, it will cause other artifacts or issues and since I am probably (if this all works) going to be designing similar pieces, I want to fix this now and not do a workaround every time.
The reason this is so important is because this design is two sided and it will be two pieces glued together, so the z bottom edges have to line up with a curve, not with a solid plane.
This is not a work around, its a step. The reason you have the pedestal is because you have a difference between the grayscale edge of your model and the Z =0 plane of the model. This is coming from Photoshop not Carveco. I do a great deal of work in PS and import my models from there into Carveco so I can assure you the problem is not with Carveco. I created a video a number of years ago (before Carveco was Carveco) that you may find helpful or just interesting. I will include the link below. And by the way, the vector does not have to follow the models edges. All you need is a vector that encompasses the entire model. A square, rectangle, or circle will do. Its a simple fix for what you have. I will be happy to work with you on this and other problems regarding PS and Carveco, just ask and I will do my best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKWUQ86GF1Y&t=17s
Thank you Barry, I hope I didn't sound dismissive or combative, not the intent.
I thought of what you mentioned previously thinking it might be that. My photoshop "model" image is encompassed by a 100% black border, the greyscale relief starts right at the edge, the relief is just a shape with a round over basically. So it goes from white (center) to greyscale at the edges and then hits solid black which I assumed would be the plane. (attached image) That's why I am having an issue understanding it. In my mind, the black is flat, then it should raise up and round over through the greyscale until it hits white again, which is the "top" of the model. So there shouldn't be the pedestal.
So is that the part I am not understanding?
(I will watch the video shortly)
Thank you.
No issues, I did not take it that you were being combative or dismissive. Try this, select using the magic wand all pure black in PS. Expand the selection a bit (say 3 or 4 pics) now, using Gaussian blur, blur the selection a bit. Try importing the new image into Carveco and see if there is any difference. You need to keep in mind that PS is a 2D program while Carveco is a 2.5 D program so edges are not equal (if that makes any sense). It is not always clear what you are translating from PS to Carveco. What looks blended (in your original PS image), I would bet, has a sharp rather than blended edge.
If any of the above does not make sense let me know and I will try to clarify,,,,,,,I think once you watch the video things will begin to drop into place for you. I do recommend that you always start your PS image by creating a tiff file in Carveco (as in my video) and opening the empty image in Ps for your PS work. Use tiff as its contains more info and thus provides for better translation between the 2 programs than the other extension options (jpg etc).
I did as suggested and it looks better, sloped more instead of direct pedestal. It's close enough I guess a little extra sanding, but I'd rather have it perfect. I watched the video and it brought back memories of installing photoshop on 48 floppy disks. I can see why using TIFF would be better all the artifacts etc..
That said, I think I am not understanding HOW to do the extra step. "simply create a vector around the whole model and then merge high the pedestal height, and then subtract the same height"
I know what you are saying, we're just cropping up to a height that removes the pedestal but I am unsure how to do it and since the model is at .5 and I want it to use all of the material I have (also .5) I am getting lost...
I may be a bit less help than I would like since even though I have a Carveco license I am still using ArtCAM 12. I bought the Carveco license as I was afraid that my AC dongle would break and I would be in trouble. This by way of explanation of what is to follow since I cannot replicate your Carveco experience. Still you may be able to figure out what I am talking about and if not I expect others will step in to assist us.
To create a vector that encompasses the entire model click on the rectangle vector icon and then define a vector that surrounds your heart shaped model. Then, using the shape editor and using the pedestal height as a starting point do a merge high, then do a subtract (again using the shape editor). This will remove the pedestal. To bring the model back to the full Z size use scale relief and change the Z to whatever you want. (if you have these tools but still do not understand let me know and I will create a video, all be it using AC, detailing the process but I expect there should be videos showing you how to do this).
Now of course all of this depends on the tools available to you in Maker or Maker +. Obviously if you do not have the tools then you cannot do what I have described. If this is the case I would suggest the following.
For your next model create the PS workspace using Carveco save relief as tif file as I described in my video. It is possible that this will give better results in eliminating the pedestal. If this does not work play with the edge selection (expansion) and the amount of blur in PS. You have clearly had positive results in this respect so a bit of experimentation should give you more accurate and acceptable results. After some experimentation I bet you will know exactly the parameters you need to apply to your PS model and the "step" will be just that, a simple step in the creation of your Carveco/PS models.
I hope this helps, if I can be of further assistance I will be happy to do so. Just ask and I will do my best.
One more thing,,,,,,think of the use of Carveco and PS in conjunction as breaking new ground. Not many of us are using these 2 programs in conjunction and this will give you a competitive edge in that you will be able to do things that others not using PS cannot do or at least they would find it to be difficult to accomplish using Carveco alone. Explore/play with the two programs, have fun with the process, do not get frustrated, its a learning experience. I taught myself most everything in terms of using AC (I had 1.5 days of training and no videos to refer to) and PS (completely self taught) and then the combining of the two, and I developed techniques and processes that are unique to me (or so I believe). I expect that if you are persistent you will do the same. Its all about problem solving, have fun with it and before long it will seem second nature to you.
That worked. It finally clicked for me thank you.
I imported the Tiff as relief, set it's height to .5. I got the pedestal. I drew a vector the same size as the entire model, set it's height to .2 in the shape editor (which is the boundary of where the pedestal ended) merge high, then did a subtract. Now I am left with the model I want at .3 (I assume).
There is an issue though, I liked what I saw when it had the pedestal, not the pedestal itself, but the shaping. After the above steps, I then scaled the relief back to .5 and it looks too "hard" or "peaked" in terms of round over, so I will have to play with it I guess . I am not sure yet if that is because of my gradient or it's because of the steps being taken, and also what will happen when I use multiple reliefs and designs in one go... The next thing I will try is making the gradient (the expansion of selection + filled grey + gaussian blur) wider. That should hopefully smooth it out some more.
I understand all of what you said, I WILL learn this software but I have a lot of other things going on which precludes me from just sitting here and getting it all done and taking the time to come up with solutions like this. I also came up with this idea using shapes, selections, contracting boarders and gaussian blur on my own in PS to import (not a new thing, others do it I know) as I have been using photoshop since the beginning :) I was trying to do this is so many other ways, in many other programs and one night just sitting on the couch Photoshop tapped me on the shoulder. So I agree using both can be super beneficial. If I knew half as much about Carveco as I do PS, I'd be a certified expert by now.
All of that said, I'd really like to know the exact reason why it adds the pedestal so I can tune my designs better when importing them to just avoid that altogether.
The pedestal does not happen when you import the PS file, it happens when you create your model in PS. When you created your model in PS there was not a smooth transition between the model and the zero plane. This is evident from the fact that when you blurred the edge it smoothed out the pedestal somewhat. That is the one drawback with PS, the model may look like it has a complete and smooth transition but it may not. I reference this in my video a number of times and I blur as a matter of course when faced with your situation (again as referenced a number of times in my video). You might try exporting the Carveco model (after the pedestal is removed and the Z corrected) to PS as a tif file, select all the black (zero plane), invert the selection, and run a light guassian blur on the model. This may give (or rather return to your model) the softer aspect you are looking for. Or, maybe just run a single smoothing pass in Carveco (if you have this tool in your version of Carveco - I assume you are using Maker or Maker + since you posted in that forum thus I am not sure what tools are available to you).
That's the part I think I am having issue with. I assumed that an immediate and hard transition to black in PS would be the best. I'll test it some.
Maker Plus (for now at least).
Haven't figured out how to export yet or at which time, it's not all that intuitive compared to other programs so the learning curve will take a bit.
Its not an export, its a "save layer" from the relief menu. Check my video again as I do this from within AC a number of times. Perhaps someone with Carveco can chime in here. As you can see from the video I go back and forth between AC and PS often, I expect you will want to as well. Keep in mind that Carveco may have changed the name(s) of the relief menu contents but if you have the capacity you should be able to easily figure it out.
Your video and versions are quite old, perhaps it had different features, I have maker+ and as far as I can see, and I admit, I could be missing it, that's not in there? I see nothing regarding any kind of saving of the relief/layer, exporting or anything to do with reusing or being able to use something created in carveco outside of carveco.
I thought I saw that in a carveco video once but cannot remember which. I watched a lot of Vcarve videos so maybe I am mixing the two, but either way, I see no such option or similar option available.
I would imagine it would have to be a basic function, to save a relief you've made to use in other projects, but they do sell relief files I think so...
That would be a bummer as the ability to save tif files from within Carveco/AC is critical for me and would be helpful for you. I have a license for the premier version of Carveco and the ability is there for sure. I made sure of that before I bought it. I would hope support would comment. Perhaps if you started a new thread asking the question of can you do this with Maker + they will give a definitive answer.
Thanks for the help Barry, you solved my initial issue, the rest I will play with.
Eric,
If you want to save the image of your model as a tiff, open the bitmap you will have at least one layer there highlight it below that you will see what looks like a floppy disk click that once you get it open go down to where it says save as type (this is the wordage w7 has) in the box you will have the choice to export it as a ..... one of those is a tiff.
mike
Thank you Mike, I figured you would provide the ans and here you are. Much appreciated.
I have two goals.
The first is being able to do what Barry suggests, Import a tiff, see what's going on, export the tiff, make blur/edge etc changes in photoshop, import again and repeat until it's perfect.
The second is to export a finished model/design so I can reuse it later in a new carveco project.
Neither seems to be possible.
Going back to the image exporting (first goal), I did try it and I had previous tried it.
The only time I get anything but a completely white image (blank) exported is when I do it on the "Vector" layer. The bitmap layer results in nothing at all.
Import Relief > MyDesign.Tiff
Adjust Design Size (because for some reason Carveco thinks everything is 2000+ inches)
Center Design
Paste Design (or not, I've tried it both ways)
Export Bitmap Layer as TIFF = Nothing but white
Export Bitmap layer as BMP = Nothing but white
I am starting to see this is not possible the way he does it in his video. I have to have a perfect starting point because there is no tandem effort between external programs possible here.
Maybe I am doing something wrong or not taking an extra step somewhere?
I can get the vector layer to work, but obviously I just get a (svg, dxf etc) copy of the imported design. Which is a trace of the original shape (2d layer) and now I understand why I am getting jagged and ragged edging (like Barry said, it's not always going to be as smooth as Photoshop makes me think it is).
That all said, I assume that if this DID work, all I would be getting is the gold colored image of the model and nothing else, not what Barry gets in his version of ArtCam, which would be useless in this scenario anyway. I do not need what amounts to basically a screenshot of my model. I think what is going on here is Barry has the highest and most expensive version (and he uses an old version of ArtCam), I have the mid and new version CarveCo Maker Plus and my version is limited in it's capabilities. AND we are confusing the two.
I see no way to export a pasted model (second goal) that I have perfected to my liking to use in another project, like a saved relief model. Like "clipart".
Are both of my goals not possible in Maker Plus?
Eric, I suggest you contact support directly to get a definitive answer. Or at least start a new thread as support is probably not following this thread figuring that the community is taking care of the issue. As before if there is more I can help you with let me know and I will be happy to do what I can.
I have a definative answer for you, I took a look at the comparison of abilities of the various versions and found the following. You do not have the capability to do what I suggested with Maker+. Bummer as the capability would allow you to do so much more with the 2 programs. Still, you can use what you have to good effect. Pasting a grayscale into AC, checking what needs attention, and returing to PS to make those changes will work well for you. If you keep your PS files you will be able to use them in future projects. Not perfect but better than a kick in the backside. If you want I will generate an empty grayscale file (tif format) for you to use as a base PS workspace (I would e-mail the file to you). I have found that working from this is way better than simply saving a native tif file from withing PS.
Thank you Barry, I must have missed that, just didn't click that's what I was looking for.
A base file would be great, I understand what you have been telling me :) is there a way to contact you without putting anything a spam bot scraper can get?
If you want to share files, we recommend that you use the free WeTransfer service; this does not require the sharing or posting of email addresses.
Barry Goodman - If you use the WeTransfer service's Get a link method, you can upload your files and then post the generated link here afterwards so that Eric Gormly can download them.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
Eric, please tell me the dimensions (X&Y) you would like and whether inches or mm. Once I have this info I will let you know that the file is ready and will provide the link. The base file will look like a black rectangle as the file will be generated with nothing but the zero plane.
Awesome, thank you. 12x12 or 24x24. Inches is what I am currently working in.
OK Eric here are 2 base files, one 12X12 and 1one 24X24 inches. Please let me know when you get them in good order. All the best to you,
Barry
https://we.tl/t-1YpAi6T0hl
Eric, the link above is the WeTransfer service's Get a link as suggested by support. If you are reluctant to click on it let me know and I will post my e-mail.
Got them, thanks so much!
Glad to be of help, best of luck to you.
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